Comments on The Rejectionist: Author-friends, Meet Carleen Brice

This is a great site I couldn't stop reading. ...

2010-01-04T20:43:55.259-05:00

This is a great site I couldn't stop reading. black expressions clubs

Wow. Thank you. Great suggestions!

2009-12-19T14:15:54.121-05:00

Wow.

Thank you. Great suggestions!

Why does the 'urban lit' category exist? H...

2009-12-18T09:34:25.281-05:00

Why does the 'urban lit' category exist? How did that come to be?

Oh, and a HUGE thanks to Carleen for being SO AWES...

2009-12-18T08:36:10.119-05:00

Oh, and a HUGE thanks to Carleen for being SO AWESOME!

What anicalewis and Ink and KLBrady said. We would...

2009-12-18T08:33:12.475-05:00

What anicalewis and Ink and KLBrady said. We would also argue that "urban lit" is a pretty problematic category in general--uh, do white people not live in cities? Do they not listen to hip-hop? Do they not write books about those exact same experiences, which get shelved in "fiction"? The underlying assumption is that the experience of being a person of color is of interest only to other people of color, which, based on the lovely and heartening comments here at least, seems to be quite untrue.

Jille, writers of color are definitely more marginalized in publishing than women, but that sure doesn't make publishing a hotbed of feminism. The fact that The Corrections is considered Total Genius and, say, all of Austen is "chick lit" certainly points to a larger problem in which stories written by women don't in any way receive the kinds of critical attention and accolades as the same stories written by men. Because, you know, women just want to read about shoes. We don't think that Carleen was giving the go-ahead for that kind of thinking at all--but for writers of color, just the chance to be shelved in the "women's fiction" section, as problematic as that section is, is a huge step forward from the people of color corner where white people fear to tread. Baby steps.

Linguista, To your question about whether this i...

2009-12-18T06:41:28.418-05:00

Linguista,

To your question about whether this issue will impact you as a black writer who isn't African American, I believe the answer is yes.

I just released a novel which is CLEARLY not Urban. From the bright illustrated cover to the content, it's women's fiction/chick lit. Barnes & Noble picked it up in select stores across the country and (in the few I've visited) it sits on the table with urban lit titles, with a sign that says "Urban Literature" on the table. Someone who is looking for women's fiction/chick lit will not look on that table. Someone who is looking for Urban lit, but also just happens to like women's fiction, may happen upon it. I have gone into the store just to observe and some Urban lit readers pick it up but many glaze over it in that section. Next to Emily Giffin or Sophie Kinsella or Terry McMillan, people actually pick it up and a few have purchased.

Now, when I go into stores, I reshelve a few copies so that other audiences may have at least a brief exposure to it before it gets reshelved to Urban Lit. But I can't do that everywhere. It's a shame I have to go to those lengths but it's a start. Maybe there should be a covert national reshelving campaign. lol

I love Carleen's work and what she's doing...

2009-12-18T03:00:43.465-05:00

I love Carleen's work and what she's doing. Great cause and a wonderful lady. :-D

2009-12-18T02:59:34.147-05:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Much of these things I'd never thought of as s...

2009-12-18T01:05:04.507-05:00

Much of these things I'd never thought of as such. But I know I read a lot more white authors, particularly because the books I see by black authors ARE urban.

That might be because I grew up in the Caribbean and there isn't a wide selection. So a lot of the books fit the stereotypes. Now that I write, I find myself more drawn to things outside the urban spectrum, because I didn't grow up urban.

And now I wonder, will this pose a problem for me selling my novels? The fact that I am Black, but I don't fit the African-American stereotype?

YARGH! Once again, my comment got eaten by the in...

2009-12-17T14:10:33.758-05:00

YARGH! Once again, my comment got eaten by the internets.

Short version of yesterday's post: recommendations for children's picture books? It can't just be Corduroy and Snowy Day.

This topic leaves me with mixed feelings. On one h...

2009-12-17T12:26:27.277-05:00

This topic leaves me with mixed feelings. On one hand we're condemning the idea of a category of literature appealing to just one audience; but in the same space we are saying it is okay to have books specifically for women. So it is okay to have books targeted specifically at gender but not race?

Ink, I think your method would work well and is ...

2009-12-17T11:24:21.703-05:00

Ink,

I think your method would work well and is the kind of thing I wished for in my previous comment. Books with with strong Asian or South American themes are shelved according to their main genre, not by the ethnicity of the author, and yet no one has problems finding books by Amy Tan or Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

We only need to change the process and expectation. Book lovers will always find the books they want and the internet makes sub-genres so much easier to pinpoint.

It's great reading this post and the comments. I've really enjoyed it.

Andy, I'll agree with you there. As a former ...

2009-12-17T11:13:35.019-05:00

Andy,

I'll agree with you there. As a former bookstore owner I can say it's certainly tricky at times trying to shelve things. My choice was to put fiction by African Americans (or African Canadians) in with the rest of the fiction. First, because I think it belongs there. Second, because I think the key is informed customer service, something the chains sometimes lack. If someone wanted to find, specifically, black authors, I could pull such writers out of the mix on my shelves. Would everyone employed at a chain store be able to do that? Maybe not. But maybe that's poor training or hiring more than anything else.

It ain't always easy, though, I'll agree.

I’ve got so many thoughts on this subject I barely...

2009-12-17T11:02:01.942-05:00

I’ve got so many thoughts on this subject I barely know where to begin. I guess I’ll start with a few of questions. Why aren’t The Secret Life of Bees, the Alex Cross series or Anansi Boys labeled African American (the characters in Anansi Boys are British Caribbean but you know what I mean)? Not that they should be but according to the criteria that’s been set, aren’t they? And if a black author wrote a novel devoid of a single character of color would that book be African American? Ok, and for a last question, if you’re a black German author writing about black characters, is it still African American?

=grin= This is the madness I think about sometimes while perusing the aisles of bookstores each week. I’m confused and troubled by it and I don’t for one second believe it originates from readers. The publishing houses and bookstores are the ones who categorize books.

L.A Banks and her fans had to petition Borders and other bookstores to move her VAMPIRE HUNTRESS LEGENDS series from the Urban Literature/African American section to the SciFi/Fantasy or even Horror sections where it belongs. B&N, however, shelved it properly from the beginning. Subsequently the books have become big sellers. Now Dabel Brothers is releasing a graphic novel based on them placing VHL with other bestselling series in the Urban Fantasy genre: The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, Anita Blake by Laurell K. Hamilton, Dark Hunters by Sherrilyn Kenyon and Mercedes Thompson by Patricia Briggs.

Justine Larbalestier had to push for a grassroots campaign to get the white girl on the cover of her YA book LIAR changed to a black girl—in keeping with the main character’s ethnicity. Bloomsbury USA Children's Books responded to the tumult and shot a new cover. The book remains highly rated and is selling very well.

Perhaps in addition to seeking out great books by a variety of authors we also need to ask our favorite booksellers and publishers to forget about the ethnicity of the author and categorize books by their genres, ones devoid of color-coding.

Well, I'll concede that point, but only on the...

2009-12-17T10:45:14.805-05:00

Well, I'll concede that point, but only on the assumption that you're right. As I can't see behind the curtain I don't know what I'm not seeing.. But then, aren't we subjected to this as soon as a store puts any book into a section? I might look for 1984 under Sci-Fi, but the bookstore put it in Literature. Are they then deciding that this book would appeal more to readers of Classics then to readers of Sci-Fi? Yes, they absolutely are. So, the best thing in this case would be to remove the sections for "African-American authors" or "Urban Lit" and put them all in the same Fiction section. But, then, you have the outcry from the people who want "African-American authors" or "Urban Lit" authors sections highlighted to draw attention to them. It's a Catch-22. Is there a great solution? Not really. The best solution is to be an informed reader, which is Ms. Brice's end goal, so as I said, I can't argue with her, I suppose my problem is that the situation exists at all and that she needs to draw attention to it is unfortunate.

Andy, you're missing the point, I think. Other...

2009-12-17T10:36:06.881-05:00

Andy, you're missing the point, I think. Other people have already made these decisions for you. You won't see these books because others have already assumed you wouldn't like them. Which just might not be true.

It's not about forcing yourself to read certain things, but simply broadening your possible selections to include books that you wouldn't normally see (not because you wouldn't be willing to read these black or minority authors, but because others are deciding what to show and not show you based on ethnicity, race, etc.). So one of the ways to combat these exclusionary practices is to talk about them, and hopefully encourage people to look beyond what is presented to them and find other books to their liking.

It's like a shell game. They're spinning those three shells around in front of you, but as it happens the coin is hidden in a fourth shell behind the dealer's back. Sometimes it takes a bit of effort to move beyond what someone is showing you to find that coin - in this case, great books that aren't being presented to you.

I don't know about you, but when I'm making my choices I want the full selection to choose from, not just the books people think white boys will probably like.

Just my thoughts.

My best,
Bryan

Err.. Umm.. I mean no disrespect, the concept is a...

2009-12-17T09:58:50.545-05:00

Err.. Umm.. I mean no disrespect, the concept is a good one, and you can't argue with anyone who's working to encourage people to read.. However, in my own experience, most of the time I select a book by an author I don't know, I haven't got the slightest idea what race the author is, nor do I care. I'm not going to go out of my way to seek out books by people of any particular ethnicity. What I'm going to do is go out of my way to seek books that interest me. If that happens to be a book by an author of a different ethnicity than my own, then so it goes. If it's not, then so it goes.. Why can't we just choose books based on our interest, and not on anything to do with who the author is?

That said, I again can't argue with anyone who's spending their time encouraging people to read, and I wish Ms. Brice great success.

Thanks for hosting Carleen. Her blog rocks and sh...

2009-12-17T09:28:00.830-05:00

Thanks for hosting Carleen. Her blog rocks and she gets the word out about great authors who aren't necessarily getting the juice they should.

Also, ITA about Octavia Butler--one of my most fave authors, RIP.

Great post! Very eye-opening. I just noticed at Ta...

2009-12-17T00:10:59.519-05:00

Great post! Very eye-opening. I just noticed at Target recently an "African American" fiction section on the bookshelf.

While I'm sure they're trying to help draw the black readers to books "for them", I think it also keeps other readers away. Like, "Oh those aren't for me."

I'd love to branch out. Thanks for the book ideas and the great interview!

I loved "Their Eyes Were Watching God'. ...

2009-12-16T22:19:52.464-05:00

I loved "Their Eyes Were Watching God'. I read 'Beloved', 'Native Son', 'Clotell'. But I didn't go find those novels because of the author's race. I liked the books, they were interesting.

I like interesting.

Authors, writers, publishers need to make their books a bit more in the public eye. Several of my friends have published books with smaller publishing houses this year, and they push their books just as much or more than publisher.

I'll read anything that catches my eye but it has to catch me first.

Tirz

Dear school: OCTAVIA BUTLER OCTAVIA BUTLER OCTAVIA...

2009-12-16T21:22:20.886-05:00

Dear school: OCTAVIA BUTLER OCTAVIA BUTLER OCTAVIA BUTLER OCTAVIA BUTLER

You are an amazing woman, Carleen. You have so man...

2009-12-16T20:33:02.484-05:00

You are an amazing woman, Carleen. You have so many things to say. I'm so glad I found this post! I added your blog to my Reader right away, and can't wait to start reading it.
I've just finished my YA fantasy fiction with a black protagonist. So your words resonated deeply with me.
Can you recommend any YA or adult fantasy books with a black protagonist?
Once again, thanks for this.

Excellent post. Are publishers and book sellers ju...

2009-12-16T18:44:32.203-05:00

Excellent post. Are publishers and book sellers judging the ethnicity of the author? This just doesn't make sense to me.

Like you said, most readers don't know what the author looks like-- hence the whole pen name business, where a men write chic lit under a woman's name etc.

If a white person wrote a book with a majority of black characters in it, would it also fall under this genre? (I did not say African American, so as not to limit the nationality of these characters.)

Are Latino writers facing the same constrictions?

Fantastic! I, too, will make an effort to find ne...

2009-12-16T17:38:48.718-05:00

Fantastic! I, too, will make an effort to find new Black authors the way I do now with female authors. Thanks, Ladies!

Great interview. This is one of those weird things...

2009-12-16T17:19:46.781-05:00

Great interview. This is one of those weird things I have never understood in book marketing. How books get labeled "black" versus white etc.